Paweł Tkaczyk needs no introduction. For several years, he's been teaching companies and the entire marketing community in Poland that storytelling makes sense. Storytelling attracts customers to brands, encourages purchases, and is memorable. And we'll talk about that. 🙂
Storytelling, blogging and marketing communications.
Dominika Mączka: Is storytelling PR or marketing?
Paweł Tkaczyk: Both. The clear line between marketing and PR, which existed just 20 years ago, seems to be blurring. "Classic" marketing was one-way communication – a company would broadcast a TV ad or publish a print ad, and the consumer could... consume it, and that was it. They had little recourse when the ad content didn't interest them or even offend them; it didn't have sufficient reach. "Classic" PR, on the other hand, was two-way communication between interlocutors with equal rights. Here, people had to be persuaded (not forced) to listen. That's why in PR, we focused more on relationships.
Today, most marketing communication channels are two-way. We still have print, radio, and television, but social media and blogs with commentary play a significant role in our lives. The average person can also speak out against a brand and gain significant reach. Therefore, we're more likely to encourage people to react—and we achieve this through storytelling.
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DM: Do people believe the written word more than the spoken word?
PT: I don't think it matters. The most important thing is the so-called transfer of authority. If someone I know, respect, admire, and like says (or writes), it carries more weight than a message from someone I don't know and don't like. Regardless of the form. Moreover, we become accustomed to the form, meaning we prefer to watch some people (on TV shows or YouTube channels) rather than read their books. And vice versa.
DM: Is price – in the context of Polish consumers’ decisions – still a key factor or are you observing changes in this matter, for example, towards the importance of “experiences”?
PT: It isn't and never has been. And this doesn't just apply to Polish consumers. Price equates to value. A consumer says "too expensive" when they can't see any value on the other side of the equation that justifies the price. The converse is also true – if I see value, I'm willing to pay for it. And that's it. I won't complain about price as long as it's justified.
The right price is a topic for a completely separate discussion. First, there's the question of whether the product category is indifferent or not. There are people who go to the store for "milk" or "yogurt" and don't care about the brand or ingredients. On the other hand, there are those who carefully read food labels, but... they won't pay for, for example, password storage software on their computer. Because they don't care about the category, they don't see the difference between different programs of this type, and... they'll go for the cheapest one.
Secondly, there's the issue of how much we earn. PLN 15 for a can of Red Bull in a hotel restaurant is OK for some and unacceptable for others.
Third, the consumer himself is finally changing. He's willing to pay more if, beyond the bare product, he gets the experience you mentioned. Building value is a long and complex process, but it always works for everyone.
DM: What storytelling techniques work best in online marketing?
PT: For example, those related to value creation, mentioned above. If you convince people that the product or service you're selling is a rare commodity, they're willing to pay more. If they find what you're offering difficult to implement, they're willing to pay more. There are quite a few techniques. So, storytelling isn't always about the protagonist overcoming obstacles. Sometimes, we can build value at the level of individual sentences.
DM: What mistakes are most often made in boring ads? How can you avoid them?
PT: The most common mistake advertisers make is not measuring advertising effectiveness. Because, contrary to appearances, a boring ad can be effective. And conversely, an ad that evokes emotions and wins festivals doesn't necessarily have to sell. And if the campaign goal is to increase sales, then... if you don't measure, you have no idea it's not working.
DM: What should you consider when planning to use storytelling in your communication strategy?
PT: A tool called the "storytelling triangle" consists of—as the name suggests—three elements: story, audience, and narrator. Many companies, when developing their communication strategies, pay disproportionate attention to the storytelling aspect, while simultaneously ignoring the audience (adapting the story to the language of our audience) and the narrator (giving your message a unique style). If you're selling the same thing as everyone else, for example, you run a language school or sell cameras, it's difficult to stand out on the product level. Adapting to your audience and creating a unique narrative style can truly set you apart.
DM: How do you find the balance between writing valuable content and creating texts that rank well on your website?
PT: Very simply: I don't worry about SEO at all . Google recommended writing for people some time ago—and that's exactly what I do. Besides, I don't rely on algorithms, but on relationships with real people—a significant portion of my blog's traffic comes from referrals from social media. These are real people who found the content engaging and decided to share it with others. So: I do care about Google's accuracy (my site loads quickly and is readable on mobile devices), but when it comes to checking whether an article is saturated with keywords—I don't.
Gamification, cognitive science and atavisms.
DM: I recently read your book about gamification and its implementation in various areas of life – if you could gamify one activity in your life – what would it be?
PT: Physical exercise. I know I should, but I often struggle to find the motivation. I use apps with built-in gamification mechanisms, of course, but a certain amount of intrinsic motivation is also necessary.
DM: You frequently draw on findings from cognitive science research in your publications. What scientific or popular science books would you recommend for a better understanding of human behavior at the level of atavism or behaviorism?
PT: First of all, the brilliant "Thinking Traps" by Daniel Kahnemann – it's not a quick read; the author skims through the last forty years of research on decision-making, but if you're looking for a starting point – this is the way to go. Plus, everything Dan Ariely has written. Richard Thaler and his "Misbehaving" are also excellent. And for people looking for practical applications of psychology in, for example, negotiations, there's Robert Cialdini and "Influencing."
Marketing in Polish companies – from Tkaczyk's perspective 🙂
DM: Which brands do you think tell the best stories on the Polish market?
PT: Allegro is doing great. It's experimenting with formats – "Polish Legends" was really something. The OLX campaign is going well, and I also really like Pracuj.pl's messaging. IKEA Poland is also doing a great job. We have nothing to be ashamed of.
DM: What stories are missing from Polish brands? What would you like to hear about?
PT: I think we're lacking in advertising. I'd like to see more self-respecting politicians – in the US, they regularly appear on late-night comedy shows. We don't have good late-night comedy shows (I regret the death of SNL Poland), and self-respecting politicians are hard to find either.
DM: What is the biggest mistake marketing companies in Poland make?
PT: Relying on whim instead of reliable data.
DM: What do you miss about agency marketing?
PT: Nothing. It's not like I woke up one morning and thought, "Oh my gosh, it would be cool if agencies did this or that." There are agencies that are great at educating clients, there are those that make them laugh, and there are others that don't say much and just do it. There's something for everyone.
DM: What is more important: marketing or sales?
PT: Sales, because I can easily imagine a situation where a company sells without marketing—and is satisfied. It's worse the other way around—if you imagine a company that has brilliant marketing but doesn't sell… it's hard to imagine such a company being satisfied, right? But that's more of an imaginary problem—sales are always accompanied by some marketing, and on the other hand, all marketing is done with the end goal of selling (at least that's what I hope). So: one doesn't exist without the other.
photo: Krzysztof ZaleskiPaweł Tkaczyk, as he himself claims, makes his living by telling stories. He builds strong brands – working with Agora, the Allegro Group, and many smaller companies, among others. He advises startups and other enterprises – serving as a mentor, for example, during Startup Weekend and Startup Fest. He shares his knowledge – he writes a blog about brand building and has written three books: "Zakamarki marki," "Grywalizacja," and "Narratologia." He conducts training courses on marketing, branding, and social media. He loves letters in almost every form – except Comic Sans. You can find more about Paweł and his work on his website – here.
Summary
The above article covers the following topics:
- It explains that storytelling connects marketing and PR, discusses the importance of authority transfer, the role of price and value in purchasing decisions, storytelling techniques, and the storytelling triangle as a communication strategy tool.
- Gamification was mentioned as a motivational tool and books on decision psychology and behaviorism were recommended (Kahneman, Ariely, Thaler, Cialdini).
